CarlosRuiz: full meeting

2012-05-30T16:54:31Z

full meeting

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[[IDempiere/Full Meeting Minutes|Full Meeting Minutes]] |
Full Meeting 2012-05-30


'''''CarlosRuiz''''': Good day 
'''''a42niem''''': hi Carlos 
'''''Nicolas_''''': Hi everybody 
'''''tbayen''''': Daarestiet alltogether! 
'''''tbayen''''': If there is nothing on the agenda I want to talk about the right UI for IDEMPIERE-270 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': agree 
'''''tbayen''''': I had an idea for a third kind of query. If we can activate multiselect on the table a user could select more than one record by hand. 
'''''tbayen''''': What is the right UI if you print a report to select between "single record" and "all not-filtered records" (and perhaps "manual selected records")??? 
'''''tbayen''''': CarlosRuiz, you are right, my idea to use the SHIFT key while pressing the report button does not work in zk. 
'''''tbayen''''': (I have not tried it...) 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': we have three buttons on swing and two buttons in zk 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': "Report" button (for print formats) and "Print" button for documents (and in swing we have somewhat a duplicated functionality "Print Preview"" 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': Print -> is configured via the process related to the tab - so we can just have one configured - or can we have more than one? 
'''''tbayen''''': That is what I think. But you are much more experienced 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': and "Report" button connect to the print formats defined - and show a list to chose if there are several 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': I'm wondering if we simply have two buttons "Report Single" and "Report Multi" 
'''''tbayen''''': If the print button is for printing a document form and some people use the report button to print various document forms via the popup list there is something wrong with the UI. 
'''''Nicolas_''''': i would say that Print (defined in tab) is for 'nice' print formats (invoices, ...) whereas Report is used for reporting (standard print formats) ; i don't see a distinction between Single or Multi 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': yes - and Print uses a different view per document 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': Report Single - is the actual behavior you execute a print format showing just the actual record 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': Report Multi - would be a new button to execute a print format with all the selected records 
'''''a42niem''''': i think the title of idempiere-270 says what would be necessary: just inherit the current search setting when calling the report 
'''''tbayen''''': Nicolas_, you say that there is a rule that reports with the left button are not allowed to be nice? Hihi 
'''''Nicolas_''''': tbayen : i don't catch :-/ 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': just a draft proposal - such solution seems better now that we can hide buttons from the toolbar - so if people don't want to use a specific button it can be hidden 
'''''tbayen''''': If you have a new button "Report Single" the only difference to the "print" button would be the view. Why not integrate these two? 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': Dirk - Thomas found use cases where reporting a single record can be useful - so it became something that must be optional 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': and apparently there are not a rule of thumb to know which print format must be single or multi - it depends on the usage 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': so, Thomas implemented the button to behave dual mode - click and shift-click 
'''''a42niem''''': ok, then it would be bad to first have to go via search, understood 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': but that represent a problem in zk 
'''''tbayen''''': I is thinkable that someone want to print different kinds of document forms from one record. Up to now you can do this with the report button using the popup menu. 
'''''tbayen''''': The real solution would be to extend the print button so that you can print these forms with a "print popup menu". 
'''''Nicolas_''''': or a sub menu (like the one for Zoom or Request) ; user click on 'Report' and then could easily select Single or Report ; same behaviour for all buttons 
'''''hahmed''''': toolbars with popup menus are not a very common UI element among applications. And even in idempiere it would be only used in this single case 
'''''hahmed''''': Nicolas_ submenu is better in my opinion 
'''''tbayen''''': The print button has to combine all defined "single page" formats with the entry from the register and create a popup. 
'''''tbayen''''': Nicolas_, there is already a popup on the "report" button - if you defined more than one report for this table. 
'''''Nicolas_''''': for me it is not a pop up but a sub menu 
'''''tbayen''''': OK - we can call it submenu. 
'''''Nicolas_''''': so we agree this solution 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': do you mean that pushing the report button will show a list of all the print formats twice? 
'''''tbayen''''': How do we differentate whether a report is single page or list? 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': i.e. "List of Invoices (Single)" and "List of Invoices (Multi)" ? 
'''''tbayen''''': I mean one list at the report button and one list at the print button (including the one configured for the tab) 
'''''hahmed''''': how about maybe print Single or Multiple based on grid toggle status 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': tbayen, print button is a different thing - intended for single page print formats based on views 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': hahmed, sounds interesting idea 
'''''Nicolas_''''': That 's an interseting idea but I fear it will break people uses ; actually, when you click on report and more than one is defined, people choose ; why don't extend this and show 'Single ones...' and then 'Multi ones' in a sub menu of Report button ? 
'''''tbayen''''': hahmed, this is easy and understandable to the user. Why did I not have tihs ideo 
'''''tbayen''''': Nicolas_, you force people to use this menu everytime - even in the simplest cases. That will annoy users. 
'''''Nicolas_''''': true 
'''''tbayen''''': On the other hand you are right that we may break users habits when changing it. :-( 
'''''Nicolas_''''': it seems that there is not a perfect solution 
'''''tbayen''''': Time for a SysConfig? 
'''''hahmed''''': Well in Single view having Multiprint option does not make sense, printing what the user can't see will be more confusing 
'''''tbayen''''': ...none of our solutions is good for users with old habits. :-( 
'''''tbayen''''': hahmed, right 
'''''Nicolas_''''': SysConfig and let user choos what he prefers in his profile ? 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': one thing is habit and another is backward compatibility 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': I don't mind too much if the change of habits is to improve usability 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': and this case seems like it is 
'''''tbayen''''': CarlosRuiz, can you explain why we can not use the print button. I can not see the difference from user's view. 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': use the print button for? singles? 
'''''tbayen''''': yes 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': well - if you are on "Invoice (Customer)" window the list of print formats are those defined for C_Invoice table 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': for the report button 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': but the print format used for document is defined at several levels (bp, doctype, form) - and when the invoice is shown to you you can chose the print formats related to the C_InvoiceHeader_V view 
'''''tbayen''''': So the print button has some special logic to choose the right format. But why not use this "special" report and other single page formats to create a submenu. From a user's view it is all about "print me a page out of this record". 
'''''hahmed''''': tbayen, because the special logic is hardcoded in code and not easy to retrive it at runtime. (which is something we should fix eventually) 
'''''tbayen''''': I would do the following: 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': indeed that is a wished improvement and it can represent a problem 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': to allow user to select a document form - that's not possible actually for jasper formats 
'''''tbayen''''': If user presses button I look if there are single page reports. If yes, I create a submenu with them. First entry will be "standard" (after that one entry per report). If user presses standard I can do whatever the rpint button did before. - ...Am I wrong? 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': although your improvement here solves the problem for multiple jasper reports invoice formats 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': in this case I think the print button is correct and we better don't touch it - it's a way to print straight the predefined format for a document 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': maybe you don't want users printing the wrong format for a different customer 
'''''tbayen''''': OK - I contradicted three times and you are not convinced. I give up and will not touch it. :-) 
'''''tbayen''''': I would like to summarize: We use one report button. In form view it prints a single record. In list view it depends on a SysConfig: Either it prints the filtered list or it opens a submenu (or doubles the entries in a already present submenu). 
'''''hahmed''''': I agree with Carlos that print button should remain as is for lets call them Forms printing (invoices, shipments, etc) while report button should be modified as required 
'''''hahmed''''': tbayen sounds good to me 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': tbayen, I think if there are several print formats it shows the list 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': as it is today 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': what would change is the query passed to the report - in grid or single mode 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': for jasper reports I guess you need to pass also the actual mode "grid/single" and you decide in your jasper what to do 
'''''tbayen''''': Nicolas_ mentioned to show a double length list in grid mode. There may be users that used this for something?!? I would configure this with SysConfig. 
'''''hahmed''''': Carlos, even that can be avoided as within jasper we can check the number of records returns using a master query and run the single/multi subreport 
'''''hahmed''''': Well gtg everyone. See you next week. Bye 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': thanks hahmed - I'm asking Heng Sin opinion .... 
'''''tbayen''''': Bye, thanks for your ideas 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': tbayen, the two buttons idea sounds clearer for user and for everybody 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': and we have now the ability to hide/show buttons per system/window/role 
'''''tbayen''''': Is it good to create a new button and in the same second think about hiding it? 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': I mean 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': maybe you are interested to allow print multiple for some windows - but not for others - or viceversa 
'''''tbayen''''': Yes - if we can see which formats are predefined we can hide the single button in most cases. 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': let's do it with two buttons - seems like the programming is easier and clearer also 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': just that we need to add a new icon 
'''''tbayen''''': You better do not pay me to be an artist... :-( 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': I guess we can take the report icon and add a little 1 in lower right corner - to represent single 
'''''Nicolas_''''': CarlosRuiz, i've made a commit on my fork for idempiere-255 (translation of items in VSortTab) ; added Name on PrintFormatItem_Trl and modify SynchronizeTerminology process ; it seems ok to me ; if you have time, can you please review ? i gtg in the next few minutes 
'''''CarlosRuiz''''': thanks Nicolas_ - I'll try to review it today

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CarlosRuiz: full meeting