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| fares | hi | 07:34 |
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| fares | hi | 09:11 |
| fares | i will read adempiere 3.6 cookbook pdf is it help me in idempiere? | 09:11 |
| hieplq | yes. i still help | 09:12 |
| hieplq | it is still help | 09:12 |
| fares | thanks | 09:13 |
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| norbertbede | hi CarlosRuiz | 19:02 |
| norbertbede | can i disturb you for i while | 19:02 |
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| CarlosRuiz | hi norbertbede | 19:30 |
| norbertbede | im working on the design for DMS (document managment system) plugin | 19:32 |
| norbertbede | i worked lot with alfresco, and i found interesting re-use attribute set and attribute concept for DMS | 19:32 |
| norbertbede | looks me not to complicated get first stage (meta data) handling in phase 1. later could be improved various, like indexint, file manipulation etc. | 19:33 |
| norbertbede | my question where we stopped | 19:33 |
| norbertbede | is where we made reverse engineering of attachement handling | 19:34 |
| norbertbede | as result we found 1 e.g. product records = 1 attachement record. then file details are stored in xml in binary column | 19:34 |
| norbertbede | that looks me problem when we design join each attachement attribute sets. | 19:35 |
| norbertbede | at the end we have 2 solution | 19:35 |
| norbertbede | 1. improve xml handling | 19:35 |
| norbertbede | 2. deprecate xml handling and improve attachements where each uploaded attachement will have own record in ad_attachement | 19:36 |
| norbertbede | then we can easily working with attachements | 19:36 |
| norbertbede | the question is: what you mean replace attachement XML handling with solution 2 (1 attachement 1 ad_attachement record) | 19:37 |
| norbertbede | need your objective opinion here | 19:37 |
| norbertbede | to continue properly | 19:37 |
| norbertbede | WDYT ? | 19:38 |
| tbayen | Hi | 19:39 |
| norbertbede | hi tbayen | 19:41 |
| tbayen | What is the difference between Business Partner field "Open Balance" and the result of the Open Items report? | 19:41 |
| CarlosRuiz | norbertbede, I have not used alfresco - and casually these days I've been thinking in a DMS plugin - so probably I would be heavily interested in working that with you if possible | 19:41 |
| norbertbede | as i know openbalance is feild could be recalculated in batch. but system handle this value continuously on updates | 19:42 |
| tbayen | My question is: Why are the values different? | 19:42 |
| norbertbede | consistency issue e.g. you merge business parnter | 19:43 |
| norbertbede | CarlosRuiz. i have 2 A4 sites prepared. not yet finished but will share with you, because its quite important in short term for me | 19:43 |
| tbayen | There are different values in the demo. There must be a reason for that, mustn't it? | 19:44 |
| norbertbede | tbayen must be same | 19:44 |
| norbertbede | try to recalculate it | 19:44 |
| norbertbede | with process | 19:44 |
| norbertbede | maybe sw issue too | 19:45 |
| norbertbede | bug | 19:45 |
| tbayen | I see differences in the demo. Is this a bug in the demo database or am I missing something? | 19:46 |
| tbayen | e.g. "C&W construction" | 19:46 |
| norbertbede | IMHO could be sw issue or somebode used merge entities | 19:47 |
| norbertbede | maybe others know more about this | 19:47 |
| norbertbede | :) | 19:47 |
| norbertbede | working for us well | 19:47 |
| tbayen | Thanks for your confirmation that it should work and must be an issue. | 19:47 |
| norbertbede | in serious approach you must recalculate it to fit then test with transactions | 19:47 |
| tbayen | Yes, I will do that now. | 19:48 |
| norbertbede | hope help | 19:48 |
| norbertbede | tbayen. an idea - offtopic | 19:48 |
| tbayen | yes? | 19:48 |
| norbertbede | we are invited hieplq to slovakia for 1-2 month | 19:48 |
| norbertbede | thinking about make a round trip Slovakia>Italiy>France>Germany | 19:49 |
| norbertbede | to meet others like Marko, Nmicoud. you etc. | 19:49 |
| tbayen | yes, fine! I would like to invite him! :-) | 19:49 |
| norbertbede | we have submit all papers and credits to government and they must answer next week. if accept then we send papers to hiep and he should get visa in vietnam. then we sponsor his travel… let you know schedules | 19:50 |
| norbertbede | we can maybe creates a small european meeting | 19:51 |
| norbertbede | somewhere | 19:51 |
| tbayen | I think about having a conference this summer. There is only one point to clear before I begin planning it. Perhaps this fits together? If he comes earlier I am afraid he has to travel two times. :-D | 19:51 |
| norbertbede | we requested 90 days in schengen. | 19:51 |
| norbertbede | applicable between february and juny or july dont rememver exactly | 19:52 |
| norbertbede | so we can schedule travel well | 19:52 |
| tbayen | Hmmm... perhaps I planned about june or august. But I would like to meet hieplq. That must be possible somehow. | 19:52 |
| tbayen | Up to now we should use what we have fixed. And that is your schedule. So I would like to invite him here. Tell me when there is a good time. | 19:53 |
| norbertbede | ok. i will let you know when he will have confirmed schengen VISA | 19:53 |
| norbertbede | and we need buy flyticket. this time is when we need fix schedule definitively | 19:54 |
| tbayen | You can be sure that I take part! :-) | 19:54 |
| tbayen | I did miss something important. :-( The "Open Balance" Field of "C&W" was 323,02. After running the validating process is was 324,13. The sum of the open items is 228,86. | 19:59 |
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| CarlosRuiz | tbayen, in demo.idempiere.com? | 20:02 |
| tbayen | Yes. | 20:03 |
| CarlosRuiz | tbayen, making the calculations manually I got very close to see that OpenBalance is correct | 20:10 |
| tbayen | Hmm... I mixed something up. Give me some minutes to explain better. | 20:18 |
| CarlosRuiz | worthy to check why not exact - the difference in my calcs is 1.11 | 20:19 |
| CarlosRuiz | invoices = 1320,95 | 20:19 |
| CarlosRuiz | payment = -864,31 | 20:19 |
| CarlosRuiz | discounts = 133.62 | 20:19 |
| tbayen | I think this difference was introduced when I used the "business partner validate" process. | 20:19 |
| CarlosRuiz | norbertbede, I think the attachment table was originally designed for 1 attachment - and then maybe JJ (or somebody) improved it to save a zip and make it multi-file | 20:21 |
| CarlosRuiz | what is the issue with the xml approach you have? | 20:22 |
| norbertbede | FYI: quickly review my dms vision doc. sent you private for now | 20:23 |
| norbertbede | what is my problem with xml ? | 20:23 |
| norbertbede | imagine i want to display attached documents on orders. | 20:24 |
| norbertbede | at this moment we can see on first look what docs are attached to an order | 20:24 |
| norbertbede | i can imagine to create a simple tab type view listing all attachements, basic meta data etc. | 20:25 |
| norbertbede | based on my knowledge something this cant be done | 20:25 |
| norbertbede | other question is performance | 20:25 |
| norbertbede | but i dont know its could be a potential issue, just wondering about | 20:26 |
| norbertbede | please ready my vision doc, and we can continue about this. is something what you plan too | 20:26 |
| CarlosRuiz | I made a Proof of Concept 2 weeks ago for something similar - I created a table to keep "correspondence" | 20:30 |
| CarlosRuiz | and the attachment was "in principle" related to this "correspondence" table | 20:30 |
| CarlosRuiz | the attributes idea sounds great - I didn't think about that in my POC | 20:31 |
| CarlosRuiz | I made a table for document types - and the doctype have information about an optional sequence and an optional request category to trigger some basic request "workflow" for the item | 20:32 |
| CarlosRuiz | I was thinking in a system where a receptionist receive i.e. an invoice vendor - scan it and trigger a workflow to approve and process the invoice in a company | 20:33 |
| CarlosRuiz | not sure if that's something alfresco cope with - or is a different system | 20:33 |
| norbertbede | i have luck, because adempiere is next generation solution founded by people sold out EMC | 20:39 |
| CarlosRuiz | norbertbede, about your question - I see there is a table ad_attachmentnote - it seems unused | 20:39 |
| norbertbede | so conceptrs are great and i see lot reausable components including Workflow etc. (we implemented workflow across 12 countries and various departments) | 20:40 |
| norbertbede | this table i think is not required in new concept | 20:40 |
| norbertbede | because all info related to a "content" is stored in attribute set | 20:40 |
| CarlosRuiz | we could make ad_attachmentnote work for your needs - one record for each file with the filename and attribute set | 20:41 |
| norbertbede | you can see idea where we found to attach in xml to attributes | 20:41 |
| norbertbede | just doesnt exactly understand ad_attachmentnote | 20:42 |
| norbertbede | approach | 20:42 |
| CarlosRuiz | I mean - you ask if we can make ad_attachment 1-1 to a record | 20:42 |
| norbertbede | yep | 20:42 |
| CarlosRuiz | and have multiple ad_attachment related to same record when you need multiple? | 20:42 |
| norbertbede | so note could be 1:1 ? | 20:42 |
| norbertbede | you mean when we need multiple ad_attachements relate to a record ? | 20:43 |
| CarlosRuiz | at this moment we allow that | 20:43 |
| norbertbede | how | 20:44 |
| CarlosRuiz | when in DB - the attachment record contains a zip file with all the attachments | 20:44 |
| CarlosRuiz | when in filesystem - it's a list of files AFAIR | 20:44 |
| norbertbede | hm. this was review by tomassvikruha. hm | 20:45 |
| CarlosRuiz | that's why I think ad_attachmentnote as an extension of ad_attachment where you can keep information of each file | 20:45 |
| norbertbede | ok. but we can check it | 20:45 |
| CarlosRuiz | we don't touch ad_attachment - which will be hard as it will break many things (attachment store is pluggable) | 20:46 |
| norbertbede | yes. but stay consistent we can keep data in ASI subsystem | 20:46 |
| norbertbede | and drop this note concept | 20:46 |
| CarlosRuiz | but we can easily extend using ad_attachmentnote to keep filename+ASI info | 20:46 |
| norbertbede | ok. at the end its "just" technical part, dont need to change end user benefirs and overall concept | 20:47 |
| norbertbede | if you mean ASI concept could be great then would be nice | 20:47 |
| norbertbede | did you read my doc ? | 20:47 |
| norbertbede | allready | 20:47 |
| CarlosRuiz | yes | 20:47 |
| norbertbede | there is also a picture illustrate with collage how we could extend attachemtn and ASI window | 20:48 |
| norbertbede | ok | 20:48 |
| CarlosRuiz | yep - exactly - you can show the attachmentnote related to the file in screen | 20:48 |
| CarlosRuiz | in your picture where you read 4W003358.jpg - is a list of files | 20:48 |
| norbertbede | yes | 20:49 |
| norbertbede | although could be attachement split also by small viewer | 20:49 |
| norbertbede | listing attachemnt tuhmnails | 20:49 |
| norbertbede | thumbails | 20:49 |
| CarlosRuiz | so - you could show the related attachmentnote for that file - attribute set and its corresponding ASI values at the right | 20:49 |
| norbertbede | but idea is when switch file - make scoped - then user able change/update attraibutes | 20:50 |
| CarlosRuiz | yep | 20:50 |
| norbertbede | so no limitation, just reuse something could save our time | 20:50 |
| CarlosRuiz | I think maybe worthy to implement a doctype - and the doctype has the ASI reference | 20:51 |
| CarlosRuiz | and the user select the doctype instead of the attribute set | 20:52 |
| norbertbede | thinking too. just if we want to create a good DMS then not all docs are related to docs | 20:52 |
| CarlosRuiz | yes - correspondence for example | 20:52 |
| norbertbede | lot docs could be just upluaded like brochures, manuals etc | 20:53 |
| norbertbede | ah yes | 20:53 |
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| norbertbede | i prefer more attribute sets then doctypes for now | 20:53 |
| norbertbede | but could be make pros/contra | 20:53 |
| norbertbede | sure | 20:53 |
| CarlosRuiz | I think it will be easier for you to add new required things to the new doctype table - than trying to change the attribute set table | 20:54 |
| norbertbede | im usually make vision then consult realisation study with develoer :) | 20:54 |
| CarlosRuiz | maybe we better call it contenttype to not confuse it with doctype | 20:54 |
| norbertbede | my idea was asi subsystem is very complex and would be better reuse all as exists | 20:55 |
| norbertbede | cant imagine technically now how we then could joun together attributes and generate atrributeinstance per content | 20:55 |
| norbertbede | maybe you have vision | 20:55 |
| norbertbede | can you share your POC ? if reasonable | 20:58 |
| CarlosRuiz | I mean - the contenttype table just have a reference to the attribute set for such content type - is the sae | 21:01 |
| norbertbede | i see look ok | 21:01 |
| norbertbede | another big question is folder structure | 21:01 |
| CarlosRuiz | is the same as you thought - just adding a table in the middle to allow more parameters that probably you're going to need | 21:01 |
| norbertbede | at this moment we creates storage provider for amazon S3. | 21:02 |
| norbertbede | for better asseblility attachemnts for external webstore | 21:02 |
| norbertbede | this way identify a fact | 21:02 |
| CarlosRuiz | about dropupload http://books.zkoss.org/index.php?title=ZK_Component_Reference/Essential_Components/Dropupload - seems at this moment is just available for ZKEE - so would need to develop some components to make it work | 21:02 |
| norbertbede | this fact is idempiere automatically build his striucture baed on client>table>recordname | 21:03 |
| norbertbede | if we wants to manage other content and make browsable interface for end users for human readabiulity then we need implement/split a meta level "folder structure" | 21:03 |
| norbertbede | alfresco also storing files in flat way like amazon S3 with uuid filenames. | 21:04 |
| norbertbede | but user able creates folder structure | 21:04 |
| CarlosRuiz | the folder structure is managed by the plugin | 21:04 |
| CarlosRuiz | not mandatory to have client/org/table/record | 21:04 |
| CarlosRuiz | indeed I think is wrong to have the org there :-) | 21:05 |
| CarlosRuiz | but - you can define your storage plugin with a different structure and it works | 21:05 |
| norbertbede | which plugin, new one or exists | 21:05 |
| CarlosRuiz | new | 21:05 |
| CarlosRuiz | for example if you want to change the folder structure for the AttachmentFileSystem plugin - just copy it and change the getAttachmentPathSnippet method | 21:06 |
| norbertbede | this folder structure also must be used when later an external small software display data for end user. | 21:08 |
| norbertbede | we are using now sometjing like netdrive app able to map S3 or FTP as windows filesystem | 21:08 |
| norbertbede | so if we give e.g. S3 proxy then any S3 compliant system could deliver content trough filesystem | 21:09 |
| norbertbede | another question is file versiononing. would be important claridy it at beginning. so 1 file could have multiple versions - latest will be preferred in displaying in interface | 21:10 |
| norbertbede | but simple share various area, could be resolved | 21:10 |
| CarlosRuiz | or having multi-attachments | 21:11 |
| CarlosRuiz | with version - this is the case where the contenttype intermediate table helps | 21:11 |
| CarlosRuiz | you define a parameter "versioned" in the contenttype table for these kind of docs | 21:12 |
| CarlosRuiz | and your plugin can take care for example of version numbering and saving previous version when a new version is uploaded | 21:12 |
| norbertbede | lot ideas. when we start development ? (A) | 21:14 |
| CarlosRuiz | :D | 21:14 |
| norbertbede | i can assist, really know what a DMS require. | 21:14 |
| norbertbede | this could be in base or plugin | 21:14 |
| CarlosRuiz | I think a plugin will work better | 21:15 |
| norbertbede | do you need from my side additional infos. or updated POC document, where i describe other areas | 21:16 |
| CarlosRuiz | my time these days is very scarce - I can participate if you want - helping with code review, testing, and probably small development time | 21:18 |
| norbertbede | then first we need create 1 POC doc | 21:19 |
| norbertbede | then i can lead it and manage other areas | 21:20 |
| norbertbede | going to sleep. if you mean you have valueable POC please reply if possible. then i create 1 doc incudin our 2 docs and this chat | 22:07 |
| norbertbede | bye for no | 22:07 |
| norbertbede | w | 22:08 |
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| tbayen | CarlosRuiz, when you have some time can you have a look at IDEMPIERE-2435 and tell me what you think is the right way to solve it? | 23:34 |
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